Transcription from the session

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): cool so a little bit about a self intro here. So my name is Shiro Atori, I am the director of Demand generation at Concept 3D. I'm also the podcast host of the higher Ed demand Gen. Show which is a podcast that talks about higher ed marketing. So we're pushing over a hundred episodes now and it's the podcast and hosting these sessions is definitely my favorite part of my job, I get to hopefully add a little bit of value to the community. And so

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): these events and the podcast really get me excited so thank you so much for tuning in, Katie. I'll pass it over to you.

Katy Stover: Sure. Hi, everybody! I'm Katie. I'm the founder and CEO of hire people, and we help startups, recruit reskill, and retain talent. So we're helping on hiring needs. We're helping with training and upskilling and retention needs

Katy Stover: and concept is a client of ours. So we get to do lots of work with them in terms of hiring. I also do a ton of, you know, free career coaching to job seekers and people currently in their roles, and so was really excited to to be invited to join today, and hoping this is as tangible and and helpful for you all as possible. So, as Cheryl mentioned. Use the chat box. Use the kind of webinar question feature.

Katy Stover: I used to be a teacher and I I'm a huge believer that the best content is tailored to your needs. So be really active in the chat. So we can make this all about you guys.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Thanks, Katie.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Awesome. Well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I wanted to start things off with a little bit about the why, right? We're going to be covering the salary survey report, and

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): how

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): what we really wanted to do is create a little more transparency in higher educations about marketing salaries. And so I'll go to a little story here. About 3 years ago I saw Jamie Hunt, who is a very popular Linkedin influencer around

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): higher Ed marketing. She was a former Cmo. And now she started her own higher Ed Marketing agency. But she had actually posted a role, a social media marketing role in Higher Ed that went extremely viral, and people outside of the industry were commenting on it, and

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): it really made me think

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): our higher Ed marketers really underpaid. This deserves some attention, and so fast forward. 2 years we were able to finally get the salary survey started. And we're really hoping that this report will be

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): the answer to a long time black box around.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): not knowing where we stand in terms of compensation. So we want to shed light on compensation trends, and we hope to advocate for fair pay and ensure higher. Ed marketers are recognized and compensated appropriately for their outstanding work.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Cool a little bit more continued with the why, if you didn't know already. Concept 3D loves supporting higher Ed outside of just of our solutions, which is why they're able to support this full week of sessions that are mostly educational. They're able to support the podcast that I host. We really like adding value to the communities that we serve. And so this presentation is one part of that

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): who we support marketers, obviously. But we also support admissions folks, student engagement folks, web managers. Cmos, right? Anyone really related to digital technology or marketing. And so with that, we have several solutions that we provide. And we partner with

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): our most probably well known is our interactive map solution. But we also have in the localist events calendar, which is a student events calendar and a virtual tour solution. And most recently we also launched room reservations, which is a room reservation software that schools can use to help book rooms and also event spaces as well. So we're very excited about that.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And with that I'd love to move towards a poll question, so we can get a better pulse of our audience today. So what is your burning question about our report.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): and Juliana will actually take some of the answers and consolidate them into similar grouping. So let us know your burning question

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): cool.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I think we can get a little more people participated. I forgot about 20 people or sorry 20% participation. So let's let's get that above 50.

Katy Stover: And have you.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Maybe we need.

Katy Stover: Read the report yet. That's okay. I I would say, zoom out what is kind of your burning question around higher ed salaries. And this session today.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yup. And then, yeah.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): great point, Katie. Also, if you have questions around like career advice or career coaching, you can add those in here, too, because we're going to cover that in the latter half.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): almost there, almost at 50. We can do this.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): What is your what was your burning question, Katie, before you got to see the report a few weeks ago.

Katy Stover: Yeah, I I was wondering how higher Ed compared across industries. Right? So what what does the data say? How to marketers in higher Ed. Compare to to K 12 or tech, or some kind of the other industries that we often see. So

Katy Stover: stay tuned to find out the answer to that question.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Awesome. Thank you.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Okay. I think maybe we can wrap things up here, Juliana, and we'll get back to your burning questions as she consolidates some of the information, and

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): the poll answers, so cool.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): we are limited on time here. I could probably talk about this for an hour just by myself. But we do need to leave some

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): room for Katie here to talk about the important stuff as well, and so I consolidated a lot of the information around key questions that I wanted answered personally, and then how the report came in terms of those findings. And so the burning question for me was our higher Ed marketers undercompensated, going back to Jamie Hunt's post right?

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): So there are small nuances to all of these answers that we can get to a little bit more in detail later on. But we found that early career compensation for new hires, so new hires to about 5 years is

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): at or above cross industry, benchmarks. What is cross industry, benchmarks. We compared

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): higher ed salaries, averages to other marketing roles in other industries. So not just tech, but also nonprofit K, through 12 education.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): technology, finance.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): agriculture, etc. We compared it to about 15 major industries. And that's what the cross industry benchmarks are. So again, it seems to be at or above, for that 0 to 5 year mark for our mid and senior level roles. We did see a ceiling appear at both the mid career level and the senior career level. And so we'll get more into the how many years of experience we saw those ceilings appear. But those were kind of like the 2 main takeaways that we saw.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): So to answer your question, it depends right? It depends on where you stand in terms of seniority, your location, and a lot of different factors. So

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): we can get more into detail there. I think another big thing that I wanted to answer is especially like 2 or 3 years ago in Higher Ed employee retention seemed to be extremely difficult, and it seemed like hired marketers were very unsatisfied, and so I wanted to ask questions in the survey around preferences. Right? What made people happy? What made people want to stay? And so the key finding here is that while salary was still the most important factor for staying at a job.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): there's definitely more opportunity for employers to focus on work-life balance benefits and career growth, which came in at a very, very close second, 3, rd and 4th place to salary when it came to preferences. So love to dig a little bit deeper there.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Another one is. Is the workforce overwhelmed? Right? I'm a marketer myself.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): It's definitely a very, very busy job, right? Holding many different hats, many different channels. But I think this one is also very true for higher. Ed. So I wanted this answered, and we found that the average higher Ed marketer is owning 2 and a half key functions under one title, and

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): the big or the biggest denominator for that is social media. Right? Social media has secured itself as a primary add-on to individuals, core responsibilities which I'm sure a lot of people here today will feel.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And unfortunately, another key finding was that there still are, or seem to be, gender pay disparities based on our data. So men early in their career in higher Ed marketing roles. Hence senior roles seem to earn more on average. And this was very interesting, considering about 75% of our respondents

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): were women. So in a female dominated industry, you would assume that there'd be

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): better pay for the the role function that's dominated.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Cool. Just talked a little bit about. You know how much of our respondents were, are women.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Here's our survey data. So all of our data was acquired organically, I was literally walking around Ama, asking people to fill out the survey because we needed more folks. We hope to get to that 500 number. But we're very happy with where we landed in our 1st ever salary report which gave us 90% statistical significance of the industry, we can always do better right? But I thought, another interesting part about this is that almost 50

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): of our respondents had either a master's degree or a doctorate, and so I think that's super high for any industry in general. But it might be the highest for any marketing role.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And then, as you can see here, we had a great spread of different seniority roles. I think maybe we were lacking a little bit in entry level roles as well as executive. But we had a very good spread and a good spread of institution types as well, and so you can see 64% were 4 year, 29% private, 5% community college

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): cool. And Katie, are we all good on the chat? I haven't been following, but I'm responding.

Katy Stover: I'm having fun over there. So you're keep going. Yeah.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Sweet. This slide is going to show the years of experience showing the minimum range to the maximum range, also showing average salary and median salary. And so I didn't really need to go in and explain all this, because again, we want to leave time for Katie, but wanted to point out medium is median is the midpoint salary, where half

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): the earners make more and half make less. The average or mean is calculated by adding all the salaries and then dividing by the number of earners total.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): So you hear these numbers or these statistics? A lot right?

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Most people typically prefer Median. It seems to be right in the middle, because the average or mean can also often be offset by big outliers, whether it's above or below. And so I think we had a really big outlier in that 10 to 19 mark. So but yeah, make sure to glance at this data. See where you fit again. I don't need to talk about each year and each salary in great detail here.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Anything else you want to comment on, Katie here.

Katy Stover: No

Katy Stover: just thinking about how the yeah. The averages make sense. The outliers to me are are pretty significant right to see that somebody is starting at 54 K, and then someone, even at one to 2 years, is making 140 K. So that feels like a a large gap there and then. Obviously, that 10 to 19 we're seeing the most. So I'd love to better understand. Kind of the why behind, maybe some of the lower candidates, or some of the the higher candidates? Is it

Katy Stover: location? Were they just great in negotiation? What? What are kind of those X factors? Because we are seeing a pretty wide gap here. But obviously, as you're looking at this you should be thinking about. Okay, do I fall in the average do I fall in the median, and how do I ideally get myself to start inching towards some of those higher salaries, as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Thank you.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Awesome. And I think I talked about in the key findings portion right? We also, compared by years of experience, female and male as well as well, and so on. The visual on the graph. On the right hand side you can see, yellow is the area covered by yellow is male

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): and green is female, and wherever the yellow is above, the green line is where the discrepancies in salary pay were. The good thing is that it wasn't just one sided right. Women did earn more on average, at that 6 to 9 year mark, and also at the 20 plus year mark, and that 9 10 to 19 is where we saw the big outlier in terms of

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): the average. And so

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): just want to make sure you take that difference with a grain of salt. But it would. I would like to see the graph more even across throughout all the different years of seniority.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I was just reading Will's comment, and I couldn't help but smile cool.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): we're talking about salaries, right? And career growth. So I thought it'd be great to also list the averages of salaries

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): by job function and job title. So no surprise Vp. Of marketing or Cmo. Seem to be the highest with the averages listed there and then some of the lowest paying titles. So I think a good way to look at this is like, Where is your North Star? Right in in this career path.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And then also, if you divide by job function right? Not every marketer does the same thing. Some people do social media. Some people do paid ads and webinars like I do what is like this, the function that will get to get you where you want in terms of salary.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yeah. Anything else you want to point out here, Kate.

Katy Stover: No, these titles make sense to me. I, as you and I talked before, I think it's fascinating that the Vp. The 200 K and the Cmo are on the same, because we usually see C-suite is higher. But I think again, that's based on our data and and probably some negotiation things and different things there. And so whenever I see these numbers, it makes me think there is probably more fluidity than we think right, just because you have a certain title doesn't mean that you're.

Katy Stover: you know, supposed to get an exact number. There's obviously ranges. And we use something called pave.com. That gives us a benchmark data. But as you kind of see, there's a ton of variety in this, too, and and you know each person depending on how they're performing might be making a slightly different amount as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Absolutely.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I also thought this was interesting. I

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I was assuming that people in higher Ed, in marketing roles don't make bonuses, but found that 10% did so kind of pleasantly surprised by that as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): We also broke down salaries by

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): how big your student population was right, how big your enrollment size was, and where you were geographically in the Us. And then, if you were part of a school of, or a college of versus the Central marketing team. I think the big takeaway here is that if you work for a larger institution in terms of more student enrollment, you typically will earn more.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): There's a bit of an outlier at that, 20 to 30 K. Mark, but that's the general trend, and we also found that if you work in the Central Marketing team. You do seem to make more. I was also interested to see that Midwest was actually our highest salary region, and so we didn't break that down by how many

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): people work in the titles. And so we need to do a little bit better on this next time. But I thought this was all very fascinating, interesting.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): cool.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): all right, and then going back to our key findings right? Our higher Ed marketers paid less or more than other industries. This is the data and the visualization to back that up. So on the right hand side, the area covered by the green.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): The green

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): graph, I guess, is the line graph is the range of the different salaries. Right? So you can see from that one to 2 year. Mark 48,000 is 50 to 55,000 is the range of salaries that you see on average in other industries. And so higher Ed marketers based on our data, we're at 59,000, which is actually at the top end of that salary range.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): At that 3 to 5 year, mark, we're right smack in the middle. And this is where I talk about that ceiling right at that 6 to 9 year Mark. We seem to be

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): on the lower range of that salary range for other industries. And then again, we're back in the middle for that 10 to 19 year mark. And then

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): at that 20 year, mark 20 year, plus mark. We're again at the very low range of the average salaries. And so I thought this was very interesting.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Anything you want to point out here to Katie, as well.

Katy Stover: No, I think this is in line with what what we've seen as well. Again, I think I'm curious to get the the reactions. I think some of these numbers, just based on the market and kind of what's happening right now and in general feel feel low for someone who maybe is at 7 years, and that's consistent across other industries. So

Katy Stover: I I guess I'm I'm curious to get initial reactions from from everyone on the call in terms of the numbers, and how they feel, and if it feels appropriate to what they would be looking for in in their life, as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Great. Thank you.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Moving on to retention and preferences of higher Ed marketers. Right? And so.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I thought these answers were actually very interesting. So most people did answer, or the most frequently answered question, for what factor is most important when considering a new job was salary at no surprise, but at a very, very close second with 1, 23 mentions out of 270 was work-life balance. Next was benefits, and after that was career growth.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And so I thought this was very interesting, and especially if, let's say, your team is already hit a salary cap or a cap in pay, and you can't increase wages. How can you supplement with work-life balance options that don't

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): are of no extra cost to you as an employer, same for benefits same for career growth as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I think you had a comment on this, too, Katie. Right.

Katy Stover: Yeah. So again, we work primarily in tech. But we do work in K, 12 and higher. Ed, A, a decent amount, too. And I, we're seeing the exact same thing, I would say, what's really interesting is

Katy Stover: about 3 years ago we, when it was really a candidate, driven market, we were seeing salaries kind of the number. One thing that people were gunning for and able to get more, and as the market has shifted over the last couple of years.

Katy Stover: And as people have really kind of reevaluated things since Covid, we're seeing salary is still obviously very important, but people are sometimes rank, ordering work, life, balance and benefit and other things even more so. And I think that's now that people got the chance to work from home. That's now that you know, people have really kind of reevaluated their their working styles or thought about healthcare, and how important that is. And so

Katy Stover: it really feels like there has been a shift in the market, and what candidates care most about in the last couple of years, where salary obviously is still an important, important, and most important kind of consideration. But

Katy Stover: I just want to validate that. This feels feels really real to me, too, in terms of the conversations I have every day.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yeah. Couldn't agree more. And I'm glad you mentioned the working situation. So

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I definitely wanted a pulse check on

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): what people's working situation was my initial. Just feel was that a lot more people had to work in office still. But I think a lot of that did change. I did. All of these survey results came in the last 6 months, right? So I was happy to see that almost 60%, 57% answer that they have the ability to work hybrid now.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): which I think was much lower before Covid. But you can still see, compared to the right, which is actually their preference. 72% answer, they wanted to work hybrid. 20% said they wanted to work fully remote, which currently is at 8%. So if you're looking for a quick win in work life balance, you're looking at it right here on this slide, right? How can you provide options for better locational preferences

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): awesome. Well, with that. Let's I want to turn things over to you, Katie. How can

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I look at this data? And you know, how? Where do I go from? Here?

Katy Stover: Yeah. Well, 1st again, used to be teacher looking at the chat. Please throw in your questions. Now that you've seen this, what can we answer? What burning questions do you now have? I'm sure the the kind of most important one is okay. I found myself on here, and and maybe I'm underpaid. What do I do about that information?

Katy Stover: So we can kind of get into that. But if there are other questions that people want me to answer, happy to kind of pivot and make sure this is all about you all.

Katy Stover: But sure you can go ahead and advance to the next slide there.

Katy Stover: Alright. So I think the biggest thing is as I kind of talk to anyone employed who's talking about career conversations, whether it's compensation or it's about advancing. It's about a new title. It's about a promotion, you know. The the most important thing I can tell you all to do is one. You want a really great relationship with your manager where they feel like they are your there they want to be your hero. They want to be the person who's going to bat for you

Katy Stover: and 2. You never want to kind of come to the conversation just kind of demanding something or saying, hey? Here's what the report saying. So I deserve this right? That doesn't make people on your team. So I'd say, number one is, do exactly what everybody is kind of doing right. Now in this call, go deeper in this report. Really kind of identify where you are, what key insights pull out some things that really, actually tie to you and say.

Katy Stover: okay, from this report, I can see that you know, I'm currently being paid 10% lower than the average. Or I'm currently you know, maybe at the average. But I'm looking at this outlier, and I'm feeling like I'm working my butt off every day, and I, I want to be above the average, right? So like leverage the data and kind of create that story, that narrative. From what the data is telling you.

Katy Stover: Then I think it's really important to examine yourself right? Examine where you want to go, what your story is, what your narrative is, and how that serves the company overall. So again, when I think about this, it does not help you. If you just come and say the data says I'm below the average I deserve more. What does help is, you know I have been here for the last 5 years.

Katy Stover: I want to be able to stay here for another 10 years I've been able to do XY, and Z, and that has, you know, impacted our bottom line in these ways. You know, I also have seen that like in the last 3 years, other people have maybe been able to grow more. And and while I'm doing all of these things that are really really helpful for the company, and hitting all these milestones and growing. I have not been able to see, you know my salary come up to match that. So

Katy Stover: at the end of the day don't view the manager as your adversary. Move, view them as like your champion, the person who wants to have your back and come to them and say, Hey, can we have this conversation? You are someone who's always been my ally, and and in addition, you know, I've been able to kind of find some some information, and I want to kind of also bring to the table what I really believe I've been able to do over

Katy Stover: the last couple of years. Here, and again, really show how your story fits into the company and the the higher Ed story in terms of growth, and where they're going as well.

Katy Stover: That's kind of step one.

Katy Stover: Any questions about that. Any thoughts

Katy Stover: cool. This kind of goes in in depth a little bit more. Again, we want this to be solution oriented, right? We we don't want to just say, this is what I deserve. We want to really say, here is, here is kind of how we're working together. Here is that solution. And you do want to identify next steps. I think, especially in higher Ed and in most industries. The answer you're gonna get is.

Katy Stover: Yeah, you're doing amazing. We obviously value you. But we currently can't kind of do that because of budget codes, or we can't do that because of XY and Z. And so my recommendation there is is really trying to do something that is time bound?

Katy Stover: You know, totally hear you. It seems like we can't maybe do a raise in the next 30 days. Is this something we could work to to have happen in the next 3 months.

Katy Stover: and within the next 3 months can we set some kind of tangible goals for me. So you have data, and you have things that you can take back to your boss to say, look at what this person has been able to do in the last 3 months, and if we don't give them this raise in 3 months from now, they're at risk for leaving, and they're a really high performer, and we can't have that right like we don't. Wanna.

Katy Stover: We don't want to threaten. But we do want to show people that we have options, and we are somebody who is always going to be a high performer and a go getter. And your goal long term is to stay with the organization and grow with that organization. But you're also someone who has to kind of think about your life and and what that means. And again.

Katy Stover: I think if you wait for your performance review conversation to have these conversations, you're probably waiting too long. It should be something that is common. You don't want to badger your manager, so there is a fine line between, you know, being able to have the conversations often and kind of waiting once a year. But ideally, when you're having those one on ones you're saying.

Katy Stover: you know, you're able to point to some of your success. And as those success stories are coming in. You're like, I'm so proud and happy we were able to achieve XY, and Z. Like, how do you think this ties to my goals, you know, as you know, and as my ally, like, we're really trying to get me from a coordinator to a marketing manager. You know the fact that we just achieved. XY, and Z. Do you feel like that? Gets me there? Am I getting closer to being able to hit those milestones?

Katy Stover: So very much recommend having this be just a fluid and and constant conversation with your manager, as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yeah.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I think I I just wanted to add one comment, like, I think, early in my career, I always waited for that like annual review to even bring this up. And that's definitely one learning. You know. What you were just mentioning before is, you know, being able to have more conversations about it frequently is is definitely helpful, and you do not need to wait once a year for that conversation.

Katy Stover: Your manager should have your back right like. That's where I think people get afraid. And it's like when you turn your manager into the hero, and you're there on your side, and they could be part of that story and that growth that helps their career to say I took Shiro from, you know, this level to this level, and we were able to get him all you know, a promotion like

Katy Stover: as managers. That's what we long for. And so obviously, it's harder to do than than just one conversation sometimes. And there's a lot of red tape within all of this, and and that is true. But I I think part of the challenge so often is. People are afraid, and they they forget that their manager, it serves their manager as well, if you grow in your career.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I did have one question should can I answer it right now? Can we ask it.

Katy Stover: Oh no!

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): What strategies could I use to effectively advance my career in a predominantly in-person work environment, while working remotely.

Katy Stover: Yeah, so Danielle, it sounds like your team is currently primarily in person. And you're remote. Is that correct?

Katy Stover: That that's my get okay, cool. So yeah, I think number one.

Katy Stover: you know, obviously, that in person dynamic is probably helping some of the people in terms of the water cooler talk right, and some of the culture, and and that that is probably true. So my recommendation there is. How can you create those kind of organic moments for those going above and beyond moments, that you might be missing out on in person. Right? So I don't know what you know your company has, and and what your institution has. But for us

Katy Stover: we have slack and you know, being someone who's kind of always showing up and being someone who's over delivering and being someone who is being seen as that high performer who's kind of going above and beyond does not need to happen in person that can be online that can be in a variety of functions.

Katy Stover: I think the other thing I would say is like creating that again, that almost like chit chatty comms with people that you're missing out on. So whether that's scheduling, you know, a happy hour once a week with your peers, whether that's

Katy Stover: you know, saying, Hey, can we do? A, you know, every other day daily stand or work through solutions like again, it looks like you're going above and beyond. You're taking initiative. And you're just trying to have that like water, cooler dialogue talk with other people. So you probably have to create those moments yourself a little bit more. But I think that will actually serve you to be seen as someone who goes above and beyond. If you do that, and

Katy Stover: sometimes the the stuff in person is is also

Katy Stover: How can I put this? It can. It can air on being like almost like toxic, sometimes in terms of like just venting and like that kind of relationship. So if you can be the safe space that solution oriented and being like, Hey, like, I'm hearing from people this challenge. But I'm put creating this, you know, happy hour for us to think through solutions. You come off as kind of the positive person who's not just like engaging in the like

Katy Stover: negative banter at the water cooler, but also like engaging in a safe space, but a solution oriented space for the rest of the team.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Oh, that's great!

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): That's a great example.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I was gonna move on to the next slide. Does that work.

Katy Stover: Yeah, yeah, this was just an example. I'll let people read through it. But nothing, nothing really to say. Here.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Gotcha, yeah. And we love those questions that

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): folks are asking. So if you have anything else, please ask away because we will have another Q&A section at the very end that we can help answer those questions. And

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): here's a great example. If you want to just read it through about how you can use this actual report

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): to feel some of these conversations right.

Katy Stover: Yup, yeah, I think the big thing to note here, right is

Katy Stover: is coming to your manager and just

Katy Stover: asking like, How do I develop my skills to align more with the company skills. And I'm looking to grow. And I want to take on more, right? So like, what do you need to see from me to feel like we can really kind of match those things you might get feedback that you didn't even know in terms of like where you need to improve, and that's the juicy stuff that you need to have real honest conversations about. So don't be afraid to have someone say to you.

Katy Stover: hey? I really need you to be more strategic and take more initiative on XY. And Z. Because then you have something you can work towards. That's not nobody's putting you down. People are giving you the roadmap, and you need the roadmap to know how to get there.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Do you want to give our our listeners a live.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): live example of how you might bring this up with your manager.

Katy Stover: Totally. We're gonna put us on the spot here, Shiro.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): This is great. Let's let's give this a try.

Katy Stover: And I recommend to folks the reason we're role playing is it can be really silly. But I actually do recommend role playing with like friends and family members and other people beforehand, because half the battle in negotiation is is confidence, and not feeling like you got stuck in a weird kind of conversation, and then you kind of shied out, and then you stopped. So part of this is just knowing kind of how to how to use those objections, or how to use those

Katy Stover: sticky moments where someone again, not meaningly to like, say, no, but that's that's what we're taught to do, we're taught to say, hey? Not now. So knowing how to navigate that is half the battle, and having confidence in how to navigate, that is the other half the battle.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I'm taking notes, go role, play with some friends before my next review. This is great.

Katy Stover: Cool. Alright. So, as the employee, you probably do have to go to your manager and say again, if you have a formal review. Maybe not, but and hopefully, your manager is bringing this stuff up, too. But let's pretend

Katy Stover: I got the report, and I realized I was underpaid. And Shira. You've been my manager for a couple of years, so we do have a good relationship. But it's it's been over a year since I've gotten a raise in a promotion. And I'm coming to you with this data, saying, Hey, I'd love. I'd love to talk.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): I'll I'll I'll give one example. And then we can maybe take a different approach. But

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): so.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): hey, Katie, I'm here to support you, and you've been doing an outstanding job. And your metrics are definitely

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): align to your goals, and I really really appreciate all the hard work you've been doing. I am at a salary cap to be completely transparent for the rest of the year, and I've been advocating for you already behind. But I'd love to spend more time to figure out exactly how we can pitch the work you've been doing, and align it to your goals, and how we can better approach a better salary. Raise starting next year.

Katy Stover: Awesome. Well, first, st I just want to say thank you so much for advocating for me already, and and for taking the time to look through my goals, and knowing that I'm I'm you know, going above and beyond for me, being a high performer and being someone who is consistently kind of praised in in my job has always been really important to me, and you, as a manager, has always had my back in that. So first, st I just want to say thank you for doing that. And I hear you. I I know it's really hard in terms of budget cuts.

Katy Stover: But I I do still feel like you know I'm I'm

Katy Stover: I. I do feel pretty underpaid right now, and and I feel like I've gone above and beyond. So I'd love to better understand. Maybe the timeline around when a potential raise or promotion could happen. Also.

Katy Stover: I wanna equip you with the information you need, so that that you can kind of go back to. You know the top and really showcase the success. So I did bring some examples of ways that I've directly contributed to the Roi and Bottom line in the last year, and I thought maybe kind of walking through those together could really help you, as you continue to have conversations above you as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yeah, that sounds great. Let's definitely put some time calendar our time on our calendar directly for this conversation. Also in the in the meantime, are there other ways that we can support you outside of?

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): just talking about your salary? Right? Are there any parts of the work-life balance anything you're seeking from a career growth

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): perspective that you'd like to talk about as well.

Katy Stover: Yeah, I think you know again for me being able to see that chronological like steady raise promotion. Cycle is really important to me. So even if I'm not able to get

Katy Stover: a compensation range, I think, showing that I'm moving up in the ranks. Title wise would be really important. Career growth is really important to me, I would say, the other piece that is important. Is maintaining that hybrid work schedule. So I appreciate right now that we only have to go in 3 days a week. If that were to change, and I'd have to go in 5 days a week.

Katy Stover: That would be really hard on me and my family, and so I do think that

Katy Stover: staying at that 3 days a week is important. I know there's been conversations internally that that might shift. So I did want to talk about that as well. But ultimately the most important thing to me, and and the one thing that I I really do want to focus on is how to kind of rise in the ranks. Whether that is a title rod, I mean ideally. It's a title and a pay rise to be honest, but at least a title rise, for now.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Got it. I think I think that's good. That's a great wrap up. I think we covered a lot of the things we talked about on the salary report, and your advice as well.

Katy Stover: Cool. Yeah, I think where people get wrong in negotiation also is they focus on too many things. So I always tell people like pick the one right? Whether that's like I really want to focus on a base salary raise. I really want to focus on maybe just getting a bonus tied to performance, which maybe that's easier for you to articulate to folks, because you can say if we hit X, maybe they can make y maybe they just want to focus on

Katy Stover: keeping that work from home schedule. Right? So when you focus on too many things, it actually muddies the water, and your manager doesn't know what's most important to you. So pick your one or 2. 2 is okay. But anything beyond that. It starts to be a little bit overwhelming for folks and really focus on just that one thing I want to get my base up

Katy Stover: to from 90 to 95. I want to get a 10 annual bonus like. Whatever that one thing is. You're more likely to get that if if you really focus there.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Awesome. Thank you so much. I know we got like one or 2 more questions here. I did want to

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): move us on to our final poll question, which is about concept 3D. Would you like to learn a little bit more about our solutions, and how we can partner together as well.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): and then we'll we'll get to your question afterwards.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Yeah, this is great. The role playing is is very intense. I thought it'd be a little bit easier as a manager since we switched roles on the fly. But

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): yeah, it's impressive. You came up all that right on the spot.

Katy Stover: Yeah, take it till you make it, man, that's half of it, right like. And again, it's confidence. But.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Confidence is key. Yep.

Katy Stover: Yeah. And I again, I think the more you do it the more comfortable you become with it. That's why I recommend the role play kind of exercise, because

Katy Stover: you might not think about like oh, I didn't realize they might say I'm crushing it, and I deserve it, but I still can't do it right. So what do I do in that scenario? And or maybe they say you're not crushing it, and you need to improve on these things. What are you in that scenario so like? Create all the scenarios in your head and practice how you're going to

Katy Stover: really be able to address them, regardless of what your manager says.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Absolutely yep.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): And then, yeah, we did have a question, about how.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): So? I'm not actually how these, how these salary surveys compare to another report. I'm not familiar with that report, so I might have to get back to you on that. But what's the best way to use these types of resources when advocating for yourself, for a potential raise.

Katy Stover: Yeah, bring data to the conversation. Right? It's it's really helpful. When you come to your manager and say, Hey, you know again.

Katy Stover: want to be here. All the things we discuss and the data showing that I'm underpaid like. And you know, for me, who is a high performer, getting to the average is really important to me. So you know, I don't know if we can get to from X to Y immediately. But getting to this average number is what I'm shooting for, and it's important to me that we have a plan for me to hit those numbers in the next year to 2 years or something like that.

Katy Stover: It's a lot easier for your manager to go point to someone and say, Hey, this person? They're not just feeling underpaid. They are underpaid, based on the salary report. So showing data bringing this forward is a very, very helpful tool for you all.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Thank you, Katie, that's it's been super helpful, and I think for the 1st time in my life I'm right on the money for time. So thank you so much. Everyone for joining.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): It's been a great session again. Make sure to register for the sessions tomorrow, Thursday and Friday. If you haven't already make sure to check out entire Summit Lineup and Katie thanks so much for joining us. That was an amazing conversation.

Katy Stover: Yeah, thank you for having me so much fun. If people have more questions or need more support. I love talking about this stuff. I think it's really fun.

Katy Stover: Make it less scary. Make it more fun.

Katy Stover: That's what I'll leave it with.

Shiro Hatori (He/Him): Thank you so much. Thanks everyone for joining.